Club EV charging costs

ChocolateTrees replied on 12/04/2021 16:35

Posted on 12/04/2021 16:35

Hi all, 

as a PHEV and EV driver, I am really please to see the introduction of a cost structure and policy for PHEV and EV charging on site, but I am somewhat confused by the cost structure. 

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/uk-holidays/uk-sites/club-sites/facilities-on-club-sites/electric-vehicle-charging/

While I understand the desire to ensure that full battery EVs do not "overuse" the service, the 4x cost seems somewhat odd given the constraint that any EV only be charged using the caravan supply at 2.3Kw (10amp). 

In my experience charging my PHEV, realistically a charger has to be turned down to 8A or 6A in order to share the power available with other caravan systems (heating, kettle, microwave, cooker). This means that for a relatively small PHEV battery (11Kwh) a full charge takes 8 hours. Given there are only 24 hours in the day this would give a maximum realistic charge of 33Kwh, about the same as the largest battery quoted in the policy in a PHEV vehicle. 

If charging from a dedicated 16A socket on a power bollard were allowed, this would potentially increase the rate and hence value of the electricity consumed, making the difference in price for BEV and PHEV understandable. It would also make the use of a BEV as a tow vehicle far more viable, not requiring the member to have to find a charging location for the vehicle in what may be a remote location. 

I would love to know other members thoughts on the topic :-)

 

Tobes 

 

redface replied on 04/05/2021 22:18

Posted on 04/05/2021 22:18

In order to support several EHV/BVs charging up then surely each club site would need to:-

a) up the fuse rating of the sites' 3 phase supply and

b) charge those requiring such a service via a metered supply (coin or card fed.) 

After all the club does not supply petrol/diesel for the rest of us free of charge so why should we be disadvantaged ?

ChocolateTrees replied on 05/05/2021 09:32

Posted on 04/05/2021 22:18 by redface

In order to support several EHV/BVs charging up then surely each club site would need to:-

a) up the fuse rating of the sites' 3 phase supply and

b) charge those requiring such a service via a metered supply (coin or card fed.) 

After all the club does not supply petrol/diesel for the rest of us free of charge so why should we be disadvantaged ?

Posted on 05/05/2021 09:32

Hi redface, as per the original post, the club have a policy on charging PHEV/BEV, it's not free. Today they have a simple policy that differentiates users by vehicle type (PHEV or BEV). The driver pays for charge based on the type of vehicle. 

Personally, I would love to see metered use of electricity not just for charging but for all use while on pitch, and an open transparent system that showed the costs (pkWh) and total, but clearly that is a long way away. One could argue that those who keep electricity usage to a minimum (just lights, fridge, heating and cooking) are paying for those who heat the awning, run extra electric grills, have a big TV etc. Running a 1Kw heater over night is about the same as charging a car on its lowest setting, and will add 30-40 miles from 8pm to 8am. Having metered use on pitch could bring the cost of the pitch down, and incentivise more economical use of the sites resource. 

Having dedicated (paid for) EV charging points, perhaps a few to start with, near the entrance of a site would be a good way to encourage charging at appropriate locations. 

 

Oscarmax replied on 05/05/2021 09:49

Posted on 05/05/2021 09:32 by ChocolateTrees

Hi redface, as per the original post, the club have a policy on charging PHEV/BEV, it's not free. Today they have a simple policy that differentiates users by vehicle type (PHEV or BEV). The driver pays for charge based on the type of vehicle. 

Personally, I would love to see metered use of electricity not just for charging but for all use while on pitch, and an open transparent system that showed the costs (pkWh) and total, but clearly that is a long way away. One could argue that those who keep electricity usage to a minimum (just lights, fridge, heating and cooking) are paying for those who heat the awning, run extra electric grills, have a big TV etc. Running a 1Kw heater over night is about the same as charging a car on its lowest setting, and will add 30-40 miles from 8pm to 8am. Having metered use on pitch could bring the cost of the pitch down, and incentivise more economical use of the sites resource. 

Having dedicated (paid for) EV charging points, perhaps a few to start with, near the entrance of a site would be a good way to encourage charging at appropriate locations. 

 

Posted on 05/05/2021 09:49

I totally understand were you are coming from, I am sure some of the EV supplies would be interested and covering the cost in installing their EV charging points on the CMC sites, but again this will have to be monitored from users hogging the EV charging point, could you imagine a visitor parks up and plug in their EV hogging the site all day, and a club member wants to charge their EV or a PHEV plugged in taking a slow charge whist EV are waiting?

The only problem I see in metering pitches, the older caravans are less energy efficient, which would hurt  families or members on a limit budget. In the summer the caravans electricity consumption would be low, in the colder weather the energy would be higher, I an sure the CMC have balance out their cost for supply and seasonal demand.

cyberyacht replied on 05/05/2021 10:07

Posted on 05/05/2021 10:07

JVB wrote "Maybe until then any vehicle charging will need to be overnight when power usage is lower"

What, with all those people chewing the fat until the small hours in their awning with a 3 Kw electric fire going?

peedee replied on 05/05/2021 10:43

Posted on 05/05/2021 10:43

The way I see it  is one of the big problems of providing dedicated EV charging points on sites is the lack of standardisation. I understand there are as many as 30 different charging systems. The Club has put one in on the Brighton site but I have no idea of the type of plug in or how its use is charged for?

peedee

ChocolateTrees replied on 05/05/2021 10:57

Posted on 05/05/2021 10:43 by peedee

The way I see it  is one of the big problems of providing dedicated EV charging points on sites is the lack of standardisation. I understand there are as many as 30 different charging systems. The Club has put one in on the Brighton site but I have no idea of the type of plug in or how its use is charged for?

peedee

Posted on 05/05/2021 10:57

Hi Peedee, this is a widely misunderstood myth.

There are two current standards for charging in the UK - CCS for rapid (very high power charging) and Type 2 for slow and fast (home or destination) type charging. There is a legacy standard most new rapid chargers are still equipped with, but that is a total of 3 socket types. All new cars in the UK will use CCS and type 2.

There are 30 + charging providers in the UK, but you can think of the providers as Shell, BP, Esso etc, and the systems as petrol or diesel (or high octane Petrol or high octane diesel). All the providers use the same pump type, you just have to pick the right one for your car. 

In addition all new rapid public chargers must be able to use contactless payment, simplifying the charging process, and will often incorporate punitive overstay charges. 

ChocolateTrees replied on 05/05/2021 11:10

Posted on 05/05/2021 09:49 by Oscarmax

I totally understand were you are coming from, I am sure some of the EV supplies would be interested and covering the cost in installing their EV charging points on the CMC sites, but again this will have to be monitored from users hogging the EV charging point, could you imagine a visitor parks up and plug in their EV hogging the site all day, and a club member wants to charge their EV or a PHEV plugged in taking a slow charge whist EV are waiting?

The only problem I see in metering pitches, the older caravans are less energy efficient, which would hurt  families or members on a limit budget. In the summer the caravans electricity consumption would be low, in the colder weather the energy would be higher, I an sure the CMC have balance out their cost for supply and seasonal demand.

Posted on 05/05/2021 11:10

Hi Oscarmax, 

These are good points to think about, but very simple issues to overcome. For example - your pitch tag (or gate access tag for those sites that have electronic gates) could easily also be an RFID tag to enable the charger. Or you could pick one up from the wardens at checkin. When you want to charge, you tap in with the card to a) start the charge and b) attached the charge to your "account". No tag - no charge. Depending on the type of charger (destination / overnight or Rapid / short stay) you could easily also include overstay charges. All EV drivers are well versed in these models and will be able to make the most of the facility without penalty. 

In terms of "energy efficiency", I am sure that newer caravans have more insulation and perhaps slightly more controllable (efficient) heating, but for anyone who is using the caravan in a "normal" way will see bills that are very similar. Sure summer will be cheaper and winter more expensive - but thats true everywhere right? And as for hurting those on a limited budget, by reducing the cost of the pitch to exclude electricity, and then charging for what is used the choice on how to spend is given back to the individual. 

The club could  for example offer a standard amount of electricity per day - say up to 5 or 10kWh, and beyond that usage you pay at 20p per kWh consumed. That would give the awning heaters or car-chargers what they want or need, but without consuming the Clubs supply at no charge, and making the charging structure fairer for all?

Oscarmax replied on 05/05/2021 11:34

Posted on 05/05/2021 11:10 by ChocolateTrees

Hi Oscarmax, 

These are good points to think about, but very simple issues to overcome. For example - your pitch tag (or gate access tag for those sites that have electronic gates) could easily also be an RFID tag to enable the charger. Or you could pick one up from the wardens at checkin. When you want to charge, you tap in with the card to a) start the charge and b) attached the charge to your "account". No tag - no charge. Depending on the type of charger (destination / overnight or Rapid / short stay) you could easily also include overstay charges. All EV drivers are well versed in these models and will be able to make the most of the facility without penalty. 

In terms of "energy efficiency", I am sure that newer caravans have more insulation and perhaps slightly more controllable (efficient) heating, but for anyone who is using the caravan in a "normal" way will see bills that are very similar. Sure summer will be cheaper and winter more expensive - but thats true everywhere right? And as for hurting those on a limited budget, by reducing the cost of the pitch to exclude electricity, and then charging for what is used the choice on how to spend is given back to the individual. 

The club could  for example offer a standard amount of electricity per day - say up to 5 or 10kWh, and beyond that usage you pay at 20p per kWh consumed. That would give the awning heaters or car-chargers what they want or need, but without consuming the Clubs supply at no charge, and making the charging structure fairer for all?

Posted on 05/05/2021 11:34

I totally understand were you are coming from, as regard metering pitches the installation cost and maintenance , the CMC would require a licence to resell electric and not forgetting collection of the fee's.

At present the CMC business model at peak periods higher prices and lower price in the off season to encourage booking when the demand is lower, why complicate thing to accommodate PHEV/EV

ChocolateTrees replied on 05/05/2021 12:14

Posted on 05/05/2021 11:34 by Oscarmax

I totally understand were you are coming from, as regard metering pitches the installation cost and maintenance , the CMC would require a licence to resell electric and not forgetting collection of the fee's.

At present the CMC business model at peak periods higher prices and lower price in the off season to encourage booking when the demand is lower, why complicate thing to accommodate PHEV/EV

Posted on 05/05/2021 12:14

That's also an excellent point (the licensing and resale) though they would not be a DNO, just a service provider.  I think the rational needs to be valid though. If the clubs intention is to reduce electricity costs by charging for EV charging, they are missing out on not charging for awning heaters. If they want to reduce electricity usage for fear of overloading the sites supply, then looking at options for reducing pitch load seems sensible. If they want to encourage greener behaviours, the discouraging awning heaters might be sensible. And the key point is, EVs are coming in greater numbers to the public and to the club, so accommodating them is necessary and inevitable.

Their current policy is a good start, and shows that the club are thinking about it, but it needs work. The discussion on how how it might progress is interesting and important. 

Oscarmax replied on 05/05/2021 12:44

Posted on 05/05/2021 12:44

We used to go to a fully serviced Cl up until a couple of years ago, they intended to install metered pitches, the first 10 kWh included in the site fee then chargeable over the 10 kWh. They were having problems with awning heaters air conditioning even when unoccupied, that we could understand.

In response they put up a sign no charging of electric vehicles which we full understand, however to charge up your electric bike or mobility scooter £6.00 ?

We informed them we have 2 80 watt solar panels on the roof so don't use the caravans charger, and charge up the mobility scooter using our invertor ? still £6.00.