Coachbuilt to Van Conversion

Unless you're a back packer at heart and like washing clothes a lot whilst you're away you really can't take the gear you want for a decent length tripUnless you're a back packer at heart and like washing clothes a lot whilst you're away you really can't take the gear you want for a decent length trip

Again David I note from your blog that you have undertaken some lengthy journeys so you will aready have some idea about clothing needs. . At the risk of sounding like a product endorsement we have never had problems carrying enough clothes in our PVC including having to accommodate climatic changes of sub-zero to 28C on the same trip albeit we carefully choose technical clothing. We use Eagle Creek packing cubes (two each is enough) with hanging space in the wardrobe and waterproofs/overjackets hung in the cab. There is a double sided cube to put clean clothes on one side and dirty on the other and as a rule of thumb we never carry more than two weeks clothing. Washing clothes when you can with an admin day in camp every two weeks or so to wash/plan/relax. We also use Hydrofibre towels which take up less space, dry you better, dry themselves quicker and  are better for your skin according to my GP because they don't scour away natural oils. Two large and one small each will cost about £100 but our 2009 investment in these is still being used and they are a good as new and take up very little space. 

of course, a smaller van doesnt have to mean a PVC...

to reduce weight, and still provide the comforts that customers demand yet be truly viable at 3.5t, manufacturers are producing slimmer coachbuilts, with the likes of Carthago, Hymer and Dethleffs to the fore, in Europe, with Elddis and Swift doing something similar here.

one advantage witha coachbuilt of a similar 'footprint' to a PVC is the more vertical sidewalls and the feeling of space this can generate over a sloping sided van.

not only that, its more easy to cut 'holes/hatches' in a coachbuilt and retain body integrity....leading to more designs/layouts available.

making these vans 15cm slimmer, with a body width of 2.12m, against 2.06m of a Ducato based PVC, makes them just as nimble...

edit: ps David, could a continental ban not be driven onto ypur drive meaning the door would be in the same side for loading at home?

I've been going round the dealers to see what m/home I would consider buying.  I must admit that PVC M/H's are looking quite promising. There are many layouts but coming from a caravan there is a fair amount of compromise required to utilize the space.

The last time we had a M/H it was a coach build and we enjoyed it. It had loads of room. But now looking for something smaller.

Work in progress at the moment.

edit: ps David, could a continental ban not be driven onto your drive meaning the door would be in the same side for loading at home?

More difficult because reversing in I can reverse over a low step and straighten up but of course I can't drive over the same same step. It might work for the smallest PVC but I suspect the larger ones would be an issue. 

David

just to lob in my old hobby horse.....weight...

no doubt everyone will think a PVC will easily run at 3500kg....well...

just picked the AS Kingham as the sort of van a UK customer might go for...6.36m

MIRO of 3067, leaving 433kg of payload....

hang on.....AS includes no water in the tank....at all....70 ltr tank...70kg

...and no passenger included...nominal 75kg

...and no gas included......2x6kg bottles, full roughly 20kg

oh, no 'packs' included, who can resist these 'essentials'...all very heavy but no weights listed...ill guess instead...

Premium Pack: Alloy Wheels, Cab Air Conditioning, Cruise Control, Thule Omnistor Awning, Colour Reversing Camera & Garmin SAT NAV, 80w Solar Panel, AL-KO Air Top Suspension, Leather Steering Wheel & Gear Knob 75kg

Winter Pack: Fresh & Waste Water Tank Heater Blanket, Concertina Cab Blinds in Lieu of Cab Curtains, Truma Combi Heater Upgrade, Wheel Arch Insulation Blankets 15kg

Media Pack: Maxview VuQube II Automatic Satellite System, Twin LNB to support 2 receivers, Fully Automatic Tuning, Receives transmissions from Astra 1, Astra 2, Astra 3 and Hotbird, Compatible with any SD/HD Free to air satellite receivers 20kg

Fiat 150bhp Comfortmatic Gear box 35kg

thats 310kg of the 433kg payload gone....now down to 123kg....

now were down to caravan levels of payload.....tiny....

all before you actually put any 'stuff' in the van.....

no clothes, crockery, cutlery, pots, pans, kettle (electric and gas), chairs, tables, bbq, levellers, fluids, books, electrical gadgets, pc, phones, bikes, bike rack, tow bar for bike rack, etc, etc....

might be doable but makes you think......well, it should do.....

BB you are absolutely right to highlight Payload issues and I quote (purely for illustrative purposes and not to masquerade as part of East Neuks' sales team)  real world weights per our local weigh bridge for my current Fifer M  As you already point out the actual "unladen" weights  will depend on base vehicle options AND conversion options. The only reliable way of knowing is a weigh-bridge before purchase.

My Fifer

Unladen unconverted base vehicle per owners handbook

2010 kg.

Unladen (empty) as converted per my particular vehicles spec which is standard apart from awning with a little fuel and two gas cylinders                                             2660kg 

Laden                                            3080 kg 

"Laden" is my test to establish axle weights and margin for food clothes and other personal items.  It included driver and passenger (about 135kg). Full fuel tank. Full tank waste water,  full tank fresh water,  full toilet casette and 25 kg water to simulate other items. two full gas cylinders (3.9kg propane) tools and equipment, crockery and cutlery.

Interestingly with the grey tank full the weight on the front axle was more than rear but in normal use the load on the rear axle would be more but both would be well within specified parameters.

I don't guarantee the above weights or my methodology. 

Following this discussion with interest as I'm also pondering a move from coachbuilt to a small PVC, and the Fifer M, which I knew nothing about, looks very interesting.

BlueVanMan:

Thanks for your notes on weights, as the East Neuk website doesn't give any details apart from GVW, not even overall vehicle dimensions.   A couple of questions for you 1)  have you had any issues getting insurance for your Fifer, either refusals or loaded premiums?  2) Do they hold their value well and how easy are they to sell used?  From a trawl this morning used examples seem as rare as hen's teeth.

Mod edit:-Link added to Fifer

The Fifer Dimensions are 5.4 metres long for the "M" The width is 2.05 excluding mirrors. I have never been completely sure about the height but I work on 2.7 metres. There has been no difficulty in getting quotes at "normal" rates and the quotes have been on a par with my former van which was a Hymer Van 522.I am currently with Comfort.  I am actually selling my van just now (that is not why I am posting enthusiastically) but rather because I have recently ordered a new Fifer M for delivery this Spring. The Van is currently advertised on CC classified and in the February edition of MMM where there are two Fifers (one is an S though). The original costs on the road including an expensive Alarm and other bits and pieces was £42K in Spring 2012. I am hoping to get circa £30K but as always a  trade in will be  less. I think that compares well with my previous deal on the Hymer. 

Production numbers are low and few Ms were built in 2013/14 so few come onto the market. The longevity of the build quality means that people tend to hang onto them. East Neuk themselves normally clear any  used stock they take in pretty quickly. The Fifer is a bit of a niche product but it has won the design and drive award for several years. The build quality is superb. No frills or bells and whistles but great a design.

Hope this helps. Darren and Davy are very helpful and approachable if you phone them.

David

We, like you, changed from a caravan to a motorhome (our first motorhome being a PVC). We bought the PVC (an Adria Twin) to commute between the UK and Italy. It was perfect for our journeys there and back spending 8 or 9 nights in either direction. However, I would not like to spend more than a couple of weeks in the PVC mainly because of the lack of space but also because of the poor insulation afforded by the structure (They're not just colder (when its cold) but also hotter, particularly at night, when its very warm. As a result we moved to a 7.4m Burstner coachbuilt which we find perfect. As to the flexibility of a PVC; I accept that they are slightly more flexible when it comes to parking, although I've never failed to park the coachbuilt, even at a supermarket. They feel more stable at speed but I find fuel consumption is about the same as the coachbuilt, mainly because I tend to drive more sedately in the larger unit. With a suitable fixed awning a PVC may be ok for long stays in mainland Europe but a habitation aircon unit would make it more comfortable. One distinct advantage of the PVC was the increased load capacity which I do miss in the coachbuilt (we no longer have any capacity to bring wine Italian back to the UK!). Good luck with your search.

weight (payload) is certainly something to be aware of, some fixed bed PVCs have a large storage area under the bed.....for wine?....and the bedding lives.....on the bed.

non fixed bed PVCs may be (comparatively) strapped for storage space and finding a suitable home for bedding might be an issue, as might be making up the bed (in a smaller, more cramped space) if youve been used to a fixed bed.

the compromise between space, drivability will always be a tricky one.

one of the best layout PVCs i saw was an Adria Twin SPX which took the SP 6m rear transverse bed and put the same layout into a 6.36m version. the exrtra space was added into the front lounge and made a great difference.

sadly, no longer made.....mostly the longer versions now put longitudinal singles and retain the smaller lounge...

both Carthago and Hymer make slim coachbuilts using this 'SPX' layout, also giving large garage storage for bikes, without extending the length.

oh, and doable at 3.5t.....