Wild Isles

Well steeped then in the large pheasant shoots, red coated hunters. Real examples of what was good for the countryside. Not like us yeomen who doffed our hats. As for Rocky I never understand him.

Upland ‘moorland’ existed before! However it has been over manicured for the sole intention that game birds could thrive in artificially high numbers for the shooting fraternity. Anything that got in the way was ‘addressed’. Ancient heather rich landscapes look different to that we see today on those grouse moors, it was more of a patchwork of interdependent upland ecosystems. still lots of heather but also more bilberry, shrubs, a few stunted trees, dwarf willow and other flora which has largely been removed all of which harboured a rich web of species.
In some areas today practically all that remains is heather and that is regularly burnt in large swathes killing the insects, reptiles, amphibians and all which can’t fly to escape the roasting. This is done purely for the benefit of the ‘target’ species.
Those curlews and the grouse existed in greater numbers than today in these ancient uplands and could find better cover from predators in this natural habitat. Yes, some management is now required but only  that which sees the whole picture. Several rewilding projects of upland areas are now happening and with this threatened species are returning  

The capercaillie issue is not quite as suggested, like ptarmigan, it’s far more complex, they are also struggling like mountain hare from climate change and human disturbance. We need to explore these issues from a far more scientific and environmental standpoint, we need to see that bigger picture and the complexity that naturally occurs. Only then can all those species, both flora and fauna in these environments, and the interaction and interdependency between them be fully understood.

Yes you do, you are not stupid. You ignore the facts because you are one of the facts who is part of the problem not the solution. It is way easier to feign ignorance of the issues than to face your part in them. You will never change & I will never change we are polar opposites.

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I think the ancient areas in question were naturally almost treeless due to their acidity and the low nutrient peat and shallow soils, trees did not do well here . The timber for ship building came from different areas not the High Peak or elevated North Yorkshire Moors. What trees growing there were poor quality. There are areas in the NYMs which do support forests but not the very tops. Much of even the forested parts however were denuded further to create extended shooting estate land.

Worst still was the replanting of those Sitka stands Fish refers to. Nothing to do with environmentalists, more to do with greedy land owners seeking grants to plant non natives with little if any ecological value.

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There is a  fundamental difference between me and some of the posters here. I have no time for the big estate pheasant shoots or the Red coated hunters who take part for sport and networking. What I and my fellow upland farmers do is protect out livestock, maintain a control on the rampant fox and crow population. Doing this gives the nationally endangered ground nesting birds a fighting chance. So successful is vermin control that there is now scope to harvest 120 eggs to reintroduce curlews to south east England where they are extinct. The theory that if you leave the predators be until they have depleted all other animals and then they die out is  flawed. You cannot get those species they have exterminated back and there is the nub of the problem with loss of wildlife today. The rapid declined can be traced back to the political, blanket, Fox Hunting Ban

I understand your dislike of the red coated brigade but I think that the main point is missed, it’s not about leaving the predators to sort it out, humans caused this imbalance and we need to sort it with nature in mind. The ill perceived need for fox hunting was a result of our meddling, our messing with nature and then an enjoyment, ceremony and pomp was created around it, it became the norm. It’s not normal or natural. We need to find that better way to restore that balance. It can be done and in some areas it is being done. 

As I said David, not all areas were capable of growing trees of the quality needed. Some areas were. In Lincolnshire we have some excellent lowland heather heathland rich in species but poor in trees. Not all of the higher Peak District was forested either. Possibly those areas you mention were!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001l940

A very interesting programme on ancient trees this morning on radio 4. Our Viking ancestors were keen on tree removal for all their building and ship projects, they were quite prepared to move wood around their known world. They probably had a good time in the uk!