Diesel & petrol alternatives? Your thoughts please

Just being onboard is a step forward SL, I think the USA can be forgiven for not throwing millions out of work in a dash to look good👍🏻. Pres Biden is changing the emphasis from fossil fuel industries to renewables. Add to that he’s cancelled the Keystone XL pipeline(oil sands) from Alberta to Nebraska. . .He means business-the boy done good😊

"I cannot help but question how "green" EVs actually will prove to be in the long run,given the issues around:what is in their batteries and how it is to be obtained,how the batteries will eventually be recycled and just how the vast amounts of electricity to charge them all, is to be generated.

I am not in any way  arguing for a return to a coal based energy economy(that ship sailed years ago) but I have lived long enough and seen enough to be very sceptical about "quick fixes" driven more by political imperatives than realism."

Hi K, Many years back I was in a gathering where the attitudes and views of people towards contentious issues was discussed.

A very well respected senior union official was accused of being a cynic. His response, " I am not a cynic, I am a realist, with experience" has stayed with me.

Its easy to see that we are likely to be accused of being cynical when we simply ask to hear both sides of some stories and the response to any question raised about the viability, in the long term for the masses, is one such question.

In the gathering I mentioned it was asserted that attitudes toward the issues on discussion had changed, something we hear about, for example, about EVs, and how wonderful the employer must be to affect such change.

The response was "If you think we have changed how people think you are delusional. All we have done is teach them to exhibit acceptable behaviour"

We have all seen in the past year that targets set to 'look good' drift and become aspirational rather than strictly achievable.

Kennexton. I understand what you are saying. I tried to explain way back on this thread that EV batteries can be re-used so this has been factored in. The plan is to produce further energy from them. At present renewables produce the energy for charge points etc. We are running on renewables for much longer periods. There is a big change over going on.

There are indeed coal stocks, my family have been involved with test drilling and coal by products in the past. I think the UK did well with coal but we have to move on to clean renewables now. It doesn't seem to be a quick fix as people are still sceptical and I remember the persuasive "green" switch to diesel! 

An interesting article on 'What happens to all the dead batteries' and the estimated quoted figure of 5% recycling, along with how energy intensive the recycling is.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56574779

Having brought a new diesel car in 2019 (4x4) I am very pleased with it 55mpg solo on run 28mpg towing more so because dealers keep emailing me to buy my car as they have waiting list of people wanting to buy cars like mine They cannot be brought new anymore Having read reports of people with hybrid cars giving very poor towing returns I for one will stay with my diesel Just a thought energy companies struggle at peak times to keep electricity supply going when we get home from work & turn cooker on for our tea what happens when we arrive home plug car in to recharge then turn cooker on does it all go bang so we have no tea & no charged car???

My thoughts are nil because it will not happen at the speed the government want it to. it will be a long time off before compulsory none petrol and diesel cars are banned . so everyone needs to calm down and stop being panicked into buying high priced alternatives.

Having brought a new diesel car in 2019 (4x4) I am very pleased with it 55mpg solo on run 28mpg towing more so because dealers keep emailing me to buy my car as they have waiting list of people wanting to buy cars like mine They cannot be brought new anymore Having read reports of people with hybrid cars giving very poor towing returns I for one will stay with my diesel. 

I never had an issue towing my Bailey Unicorn Vigo with my PHEV (Volvo V60 D6). It also managed about 30mpg towing, and is currently at about 70mpg solo. It is basically like towing with an efficient diesel, with a very very efficient fossil car when solo. 

Better still, I now tow with my BEV, which uses about 32kWh / 100miles solo and 62kWh / 100miles towing. That gives me a towing range of 125 miles full to empty or 240 miles solo at a cost of £4. 

Just a thought energy companies struggle at peak times to keep electricity supply going when we get home from work & turn cooker on for our tea what happens when we arrive home plug car in to recharge then turn cooker on does it all go bang so we have no tea & no charged car???

Most EV or PHEV owners don't charge when they get home, they charge overnight when peak grid usage has calmed down and it's MUCH cheaper to do so. I charge my PHEV and now EV between 00:30am and 04:30 am when it costs 5p per kWh instead of 13p per kWh. The electricity company knows that peak is bad, and incentivise me to avoid it. Better yet, some EV cars today (and in future all) will allow you to take a little energy out of the battery to use when demand is at its peak, and return it to the grid, or use it is in your home, then recharge later on. I could run the electric oven (16Amps, the most powerful item at home) flat out for an hour for the exchange of 10 miles range, which I could replenish in 30 mins later that night, and be better off by the tune of about 35 to 40 pence.

Managing such an exercise on a national scale means we would need less expensive peak power and be supported by a wider base of renewables with extensive network attached storage.  

This is obviously stating the obvious Towing with electric cars

Comes up with "bad request" for me, ED

Mmm?  So it does  It was something I found earlier  .... basically said electric cars werent cut out for towing ... I can't find it now