How to thrive on a non 240v site!

Merve I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I'd love to have an article like that to read and return to. Our motorhome has a solar panel that came with it when we bought it 10 years ago, no idea on size of it or our battery 😉 It's been great at topping up the engine battery and the habitation one is generally full but that's been about its use 🙄. We have had an odd night off grid but Mr B2 not keen, basically because neither of us have any clue what/how long we could run things. I bought an invertor so we could use TV,  he likes to have this and apart from lights and a phone charge the rest could be gas. I feel we should give it a go - so a comprehensive article that we could refer to might give him the confidence to try it at least. If you do write one for whatever publication please let me know.

Sadly I don't think the club is over interested in our hobby 🤐 or our views judging by the magazine content, members feedback, this new website, CT issues etc as is shown by a similar response to the one you have received regarding your offer. 🙁

Hi Guys. Thank you for your support in this venture. Bakers2, Give it a go! Others have like Tirrill and Wye and have been really pleased they did. I'm very pleased to see you are using an SP. You have taken the first step to complete power independence as far as electricity is concerned. I have an article in the the last ACCEO mag which has been met with approval from several quarters. I still have it on my phone so I will try to reproduce it on here. As an aside, I am not trying to 'convert' anyone to non EHU. Those who refuse to look at it have that right but I believe they are missing out. Of course - They may not think so. I read of these folks who pay their money, arrive on site and turn everything on or at least as much as they can without tripping the 16amps!! They even heat the awning. I'm sorry, but that just isn't me - using power and natural resources because you think you are entitled! No one is entitled to waste our natural resource! Bakers, tell the OH that non EHU camping is totally possible and totally comfortable. I understand the idea of having the 'insurance' of a cable stuck in the side of the van but my insurance is that the sun rises every day and if not sunny, it still produces power. I would be the first to say that winter is a different ball game. You may indeed need a hook up but if your heat is being created by Safefill Gas and the heating pump is using just over 1amp theres not a lot of problems there I think - as long as the gas refill point is not to far away. Its just a different way of doing things - and only a little different. I have just booked a fortnight in the Lakes in August on - wait for it - an EHU site! First time Ive done that in 3 years but its in ther right place for what we want to do. But I will not be using the EHU - why would I? and have told the site so. Nightly fee reduced from £10 to £8. £28 saved. Yes not a lot but every little helps as they say. If there is a power cut it wont worry me!! Investment in equipment that allows you to go off grid, as you can see from other members, is money well spent. It comes back to you in saved fees. Mine has come back to me and I am now on a win win situation where I can stay on £4 a night sites and not worry. Again, I have booked a site in Dorset near the coast for £4 a night for three weeks in July. Ive been there before. A total of £84 instead of the usual EHU CL of let's say as an average £14 a night - £210 SAVED and no diminution of comfort. - with Photonics Universe doing 200w SPs with all the fitting kit AND the controller (MTTP) at £339.99 you can see that it doesn't take that long to get your money back from the investment. The new technologies of SP, LEDs and owner filled cylinders are an absolute Godsend for the modern caravanners. 2 years ago, I went to Pandy CC Site for a couple of nights on the way through to St Davids. I got talking, as you do, to the next door neighbor . I am not exaggerating when I say he was gobsmacked when he found out how I caravanned! He just couldn't believe it. He had never heard of such a thing- his words not mine. How many others are out there who, if they knew they could do it, would! I just wish the Caravan Club would acknowledge that!!!

Good idea Mike. Will approach them. I also blog on the caravan talk forum and have helped several there too. One guy I remember was thrilled to find out that not only could it be done but that I was doing it and with great success.he had obviously been searching for some time for straight answers. As far as I know he headed straight for the non EHU shop! Oh and by the way, my stay at Pandy was on vouchers!!

Mrs Baker does your tv work off 12v - it would use a lot less juice if it will.  Mine (Avtex) is always plugged into 12v unless I bring it into the kitchen at home!  For me being off grid gives so much more choice - not to mention kind on the pocket. 

It's a household TV, reading what others have written somewhere on CT it may have a transformer on it but neither of us understand 🙄. We haven't even been allowed to try TV via the invertor 😂😂. We have a 12v socket next to the ordinary socket but no idea what sort of connection it needs. See what you're up against 😂😂😋. We need a full, with illustrations, idiots guide and preferably someone to be beside us for the entire time!

Merve, first of all thank you for your advice regarding 12v TV's. It is so very much appreciated.

With regard to your rather well written post on the reluctance of the CC mag to run an article, do remember that there are other fish in the sea! If the CC won't publish then approach other publications such as Practical Caravan etc, as suggested by Mike. Another idea would be to write your own article and publish it online and leave a link for us to follow. Or approach e-books or Kindle to publish - it's worth consideration.

On a personal note, please hurry as I get my new caravan in March and I was reading the lost thread on How to Survive for advice and ideas! ;0) 

I wish you the best of luck.

DD

Thanks DD. Some good ideas there. I will be doing something along those lines. 

Below is an article from the ACCEO magazine, reproduced by kind permission for members who are interested in going down the road of non EHU. It explains what happened to me, my experiences and outcomes when I decided the status quo was not for me and wanted to do things differently. I hope that you all find it useful. The last paragraph is not part of the article- just a few pointers to happy non EHUing!

I have been caravanning since 1985 and up to 2012 I had been happy with the 'status quo' as indeed, we all were, and it would appear the majority still are. That was if you wanted everything working without worry on your caravan, you joined the queue to collect your Calor cylinders and had a 240v hook up stuck in the side of your van. That was the norm. I was happy to do it as I knew no different but with 4 kids, I always had an eye on the price of my caravanning. We did do the odd bit of non EHU caravanning but only for a weekend and always on my knees praying that the battery lasted and the red LED didn't come on which it invariably did!

For me, my journey to 'power independence' started in 2011. Unfortunately, it wasn't because I was a bright young thing with an endless knowledge of modern tech and gadgets, It was for more basic reasons. Although still a few years off retirement, I had started to look at my pension 'pot' and it was slowly dawning on me that the snatch and grab hits by the then Labour government on the private pension funds were going to have a serious impact on my retirement years, as indeed, it had had on so many. The promises of the amounts I would be living on melted away virtually before my eyes. It was a situation many thousands were in, and, if I was to caravan at the intensity that I had promised myself post retirement, I had to find some way of either upping my contributions or finding some way of reducing my costs for this most wonderful of pastimes. But how? The first option was not an option and I had serious doubts that I could shave even a small amount off my caravanning as prices for CC 'Certificated Locations' with Hook Up which were the type of sites I normally headed for were fairly standard in pricing. I had never, at this point, ventured onto a non hook up site for any length of time as the only way of powering the van would have been a generator or the vehicle and I wasn't going down that road! Then there were the sites owned and run by the Caravan Club - they were definitely out, not only because of cost, but because it just wasn't the type of caravanning I wanted to do. Lines of regimented caravans, pegs and the early morning walk to the washroom just wasn't my bag! So things looked pretty bleak from where I stood.

The year passed with me considering my options from time to time and slowly, a plan started to take shape. Although I am by no means what you would describe as a 'techie' I knew enough about what was going on in the techie world to make well informed decisions. The photovoltaic cell had been invented and the mighty Solar Panel had really started to make its presence felt on the world technology stage but more than that, -the technology of them had improved immensely from the first ones produced. Now, instead of direct sunlight producing power they had improved to the point where just light would generate amps. What if I could make my own power and survive on 12v? It would mean sacrifices but beggars can't be choosers and if I could, it would stop the need for the umbilical cord of the Electric Hook Up and allow me to visit sites at a third of the price! Yes, I would still need to use Calor cylinders and they were not cheap having seen them rise year on year but that was just how it was. There wasn't anything else on the market so I couldn't save money on gas cylinders - so, as it had been for years when swopping a Calor cylinder it was 'pay up and shut up' as I believe the saying goes! I wouldn't be paying for electric but I would be using more gas but there would be a definite saving. The figures definitely added up so I pressed on with my plan.

In November 2012, I put my money where my mouth was and had a 135w panel fitted to the roof of my caravan. A second 110ah battery was fitted and Wow, what a revelation, for the first time since I had started caravanning, I found myself no longer running backwards and forwards to the storage site with a newly charged battery to keep my alarm and tracker alive -my battery was fully charged all the time - How much time and diesel was that saving me? - this was working! However, someone else obviously thought my caravan was very nice and 3 months later, my caravan was stolen from a CaSSOA, panel and all! - So I started again.

In May 2013, having purchased my present caravan, I went to the first 'rally' I had ever been to. With my SP on the roof, I was very confident that power was not an issue as I went non EHU and I was right - power wasn't an issue! This was at the Caravan Clubs 'National' at Belvoir Castle and, it was there, that my plans to cut my caravanning costs received another massive boost. On wondering among the various trade stalls, I spotted some cylinders that were similar in appearance to cylinders I had seen elsewhere - made of a resin type material. For a start, I didn't bother asking about them but had made a mental note to return to that stall and ask questions about them which I did. I soon discovered that what I was looking at were Safefill cylinders- these I could fill myself, and they were fitted with the same connection as gas powered cars had, but these were probably even safer with the same 80% cutoff and check valve- I discovered that these cylinders had only just entered the market place in the previous 2 or 3 years- was this manner from heaven? Oh yes it was! But- it was even better than that, you see, Safefill had, in one foul swoop, made the illegal filling of steel cylinders an irrelevance! There was now no need for Mr Fred Karno and his dodgy valve bought from some equally dodgy geezer on the Internet to illegally fill (and commit theft by the way) steel cylinders, which, lets face it, reflects badly on all of us whether we like it or not! This was about OVERT filling and not COVERT filling. This was called Safefill-and that's exactly what it was!

Anyway, I thanked the Patron Saint of caravanning - with a Safefill cylinder on board I now saw my overall costs drop again- this time on the gas side of things as it were- what a marriage- Solar Panels and Safefill cylinders- this was almost to good to be true! Prayers are answered I thought. I bought it there and then - one of the best investments I have ever made! It just keeps on saving me money! So now I could make my own electric and had my OWN cylinder with no more heavy rental charges- I was now paying for the actual gas- not what it was stored in - that was a result! OK, I couldn't use my microwave or indeed my slow cooker, or my electric blanket but from where I was a few months earlier, I had made a quantum leap.

The next year saw me at Arley Hall at the 2014 National but only as a day visitor. Not a bad decision as it turned out as it was a very wet weekend and mud and wellies were everywhere! However, again, it was while I was wondering around the trade stands that I came across my next part of the jigsaw. In a casual conversation with a company selling all things electrical- batteries, sat navs, reversing cameras etc, I explained how happy I was to have achieved what I had over the past few months but that I had lost the use of my microwave but that I couldn't have everything. He asked me what I had on board. I told him. I'll never forget his reply - "With what you have, why the hell haven't you got an inverter?" Although I knew of inverters and what they did, I hadn't at that time considered one "Would an inverter help?" I asked, knowing what the reply would be. Well you'll have your microwave back and it'll power other things if you want them!" Without going into a long diatribe I was convinced and bought a 2000w Pure Sine Wave inverter. It wasn't cheap but what I wanted was to be able to run the microwave and other things that I now realised I could have on board with ease! I didn't want it working at its max - It was big enough to handle the large ampages and it was Pure Sine Wave which meant I didn't have to worry about any sensitive equipment I would have with me like phones, tablets etc, - if they needed a pure sine wave, it was there. I had it professionally fitted by a friend of a friend and I have to say the electrician/electronics engineer did a first class job - and then the fun really started.

June of 2014 saw us leave for Devon where, if I had this right, this would be the most economical caravanning I had ever had and it would be the first full test of the system I had pinned so many hopes on. To make it even better, my 20year old Toyota Hilux Surf tow car at that time had a conversion fitted to it and was powered by recycled veg oil which I got for nothing from people who just wanted to get rid of it! - and I could travel anywhere for 40p - and that was just because I had to use diesel to warm the engine to operating temperature! Please don't start putting veg oil in your diesel cars- this was a proper conversion!

Anyway, the fortnight was a total success. Everything worked as it should including the microwave, vacuum cleaner and the thing I really didn't want to do without- the electric toaster! We have now added a blender to that list! There I was, sitting in a field, away from the world with not an orange cable in sight and enjoying all the comforts of home! I found it difficult to believe. I had to pinch myself! Safefill was just as important as the Solar panel, providing cooking, heating the water, and really importantly as it was a very warm period, driving the fridge!! The Solar Panel refilled what had been used from the batteries and kept us in power and fully charged. The cost? £70 for site fees instead of the normal £196 (£14 a night, 20p of which I estimate would have been for the electricity used had it been an EHU site) - £126 saved and my Safefill was virtually paid for in saved fees from just one fortnight in Devon! (All my investment is now back in my pocket with ongoing huge savings) This is what I had dreamed of and indeed it is what dreams are made of.

What an amazing time of invention and innovation the last few years have been for the caravanner and his ability not only to be able to create his own power but save power too! - Solar panels, LED lighting (which I can't praise highly enough) highly efficient power saving devices, new materials for batteries making it possible for them to hold more charge at much less weight and last, but certainly not least, - the brilliant Safefill cylinder! - what would our forbears have paid for being able to go into the wild completely independent in power? And the future can only get better for the non EHU caravanner as batteries improve and SPs become even more efficient and best of all, when we can all walk into any LPG outlets and know we can fill our cylinders because Safefill cylinders are the industry standard for safe filling? Move over old heavy rusty steel cylinders, you're time has gone, there's a new kid on the block which are lighter, cleaner, doesn't mark your van with rust, you can see how much gas you have at a glance and is a hell of a lot cheaper! What more would you want? Oh yes, and one more thing- much safer with inquisitive children- open a valve on a Safefill cylinder and nothing escapes unless it's attached to a tail! With grand kids about that was a big plus! The new technology is here and not a moment too soon for me!

As far as my 'losses' were concerned, they were solved one by one. The slow cooker was replaced with a Mr Ds Thermal Cooker, which, again, saves power by cooking the contents in their own heat - (raised to temperature by gas from my Safefill of course ) the modern equivalent of the haybox, and what's the problem with a hot water bottle at night if things are a little nippy in Autumn or winter? - not that it should be with the brilliant Alde heating using much cheaper gas from a Safefill cylinder and using only 1 amp to power the pump! There has never been a time in the history of caravanning where things have been made so convenient for us power wise and at a cost that blows the old ways of a few years ago apart! Why would anyone want to have an orange cable anymore? and why oh why would anyone want to rent cylinders of gas where 70-75% is the cost of hiring the cylinder? I passionately believe that if we want to change the system that has had us straight jacketed for so many years, we need to buy things like Solar Panels and Safefill cylinders so we make it impossible for the LPG Giants to ignore us. People power will win in the end. Thinking outside the box pays doesn't it? Happy caravanning.

I would add that it is important to 'balance' the equipment you buy and to make sure it's man enough to do the job you want it to. For instance, there is no good to obtained from a 200w panel if the only thing you have to receive the electricity from it is one 85ah battery- work as it may, the panels electricity will be lost over and above the full charge of the battery. Another reason a powerful SP should be chosen is its ability to charge the leisure battery or preferably batteries during low light periods like winter or in the late evening of a warm summers day- the panel will still be big enough to generate amps where a smaller one would be producing but not in any usable quantities. Another thing to consider is what, if anything, you would want to use that is 240v and what amps that appliance draws. Again, it's no good fitting a 500w inverter if the microwave is a 650w model and the start up wattage is even higher. So choose an inverter that will 'do the job' and leave some slack in the system- you don't want the thing working at its max all the time. I have a 2000w pure sine wave inverter which probably has the handle 800 or 900w maximum- plenty of slack in the system there. Remember, and this is very important, you can't go cooking Sunday lunch in the microwave unless of course it's a bowl of soup and bread! It will of course with what I have heat Two pre made meals very adequately. The appliances we have are all appliances that are used for minutes not tens of minutes. For instance, the toaster is used for about 4 mins. The blender- 1-2 mins. The microwave- 3-4 mins and the vacuum about 6 or 7 minutes. Remember you are on batteries- you can't kick the backside out of them but used properly, an inverter is an extremely valuable addition to any van. So what is a ' balanced' system? Well, all I can do is repeat what I have and many will say they have less on this but more on that and if it works for them then they have what they need. I have 135w SP 2 x 110ah batteries and a 2000w PSW inverter. Would I change anything? I would have a bigger panel not that the 135 is inadequate- it's not but I would want 2 Li ion batteries of the same rating which hold more charge and are half the weight and a large SP can recharge quicker and gives you more leccy to use.

Thanks Merve very comprehensive. I think our inverter is probably too small,  couldn't tell you what it is but only enough for TV. Will definitely have a serious chat with hubby. Biggest issue would be how long TV could be on, we use it for radio too but have a battery operated radio so that takes that away. I don't know what size our battery is. How do I find out? How could I work out how long TV could be used for on full battery? Otherwise it'd only be led lights using 12v.

Told you it is going to be basic 😂😂

Hi Bakers, Is the Amp Hour of the battery not marked on it? I have to say I'm not sure how you would check it? I'm sure someone will know though. There must be a tester of some type that would give you clue.

How do you work out how long you can have your tele on with a full battery? - that's a bit more complicated. Firstly, is your battery in tip top condition? Assuming it is, and for ease of calculating it. Using Ohms law (and you can find any amount of useful Ohms Law calculators on the web) Lets say your battery is 100 ah. The voltage is 12v So, all you need now is a second value to complete your calculation and that would be the draw or consumption of the appliance, in this case, a television. Again, lets assume the power (or consumption) in watts is 30w. So, dividing 12 into 30 goes 2.5 which is the Amps it draws per hour. So, if you ran your tele and nothing else from your tip top battery theoretically, and the word here is theoretically, you could run your tele for 20 hrs. Now, you may wonder why you can't get 40hrs out of it - that is because a battery only gives 50% of its power before being considered flat, So you only have 50ahs to play with. (I am not an electrician or anything like one so I am prepared to be corrected by a more knowledgeable dude!) Anyway, back to the calculation. Now, I mentioned the word theoretically- that's because your battery probably isn't in tip top condition and if you are running it through an inverter then the inverter is drawing power too. (That's why I kill mine as soon as I have finisheded with it.) Then there is the resistance of the cabling and wiring etc which won't be great but will still account for a little more. Running it on 12v will help as that will dispense with the inverter. We only run things through our inverter which can't be done with 12v ( ok a vacuum could but we had already bought it and it's good and powerful) I hope that explains a little of the 'new thinking' for non EHU. And if any of you trade electricians want to put me right then please feel free. I will always welcome knowledge. ( Bakers- tell him to take up reading or something - its cheaper and more informative LOL 😂 )

B2. You don't even need a TV if you have a laptop. Simply buy a TV USB plug in tuner (mine happens to be "Total Media" but there are loads for about £25) Then a 12v lead from Amazon for your laptop and just plug it into the 12v socket in your caravan and plug in the aerial into the USB tuner and watch telly with VERY little current draw all day if you want to.

Merve. Wasting your time with the CC. They are not interested as it would take potential customers for their overpriced sites away. Try the other club as they are far more focused upon independent (off grid)campers and caravanners with their support of low cost off gridTemp Holiday Sites. Everybody has a SP on these sites.

Might just see you on that CL near BB Merve in July. We have unfinished sea Fyshing business. All the best mate. Fysh