Club EV charging costs

ChocolateTrees replied on 12/04/2021 16:35

Posted on 12/04/2021 16:35

Hi all, 

as a PHEV and EV driver, I am really please to see the introduction of a cost structure and policy for PHEV and EV charging on site, but I am somewhat confused by the cost structure. 

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/uk-holidays/uk-sites/club-sites/facilities-on-club-sites/electric-vehicle-charging/

While I understand the desire to ensure that full battery EVs do not "overuse" the service, the 4x cost seems somewhat odd given the constraint that any EV only be charged using the caravan supply at 2.3Kw (10amp). 

In my experience charging my PHEV, realistically a charger has to be turned down to 8A or 6A in order to share the power available with other caravan systems (heating, kettle, microwave, cooker). This means that for a relatively small PHEV battery (11Kwh) a full charge takes 8 hours. Given there are only 24 hours in the day this would give a maximum realistic charge of 33Kwh, about the same as the largest battery quoted in the policy in a PHEV vehicle. 

If charging from a dedicated 16A socket on a power bollard were allowed, this would potentially increase the rate and hence value of the electricity consumed, making the difference in price for BEV and PHEV understandable. It would also make the use of a BEV as a tow vehicle far more viable, not requiring the member to have to find a charging location for the vehicle in what may be a remote location. 

I would love to know other members thoughts on the topic :-)

 

Tobes 

 

ChocolateTrees replied on 07/05/2021 18:47

Posted on 07/05/2021 11:37 by peedee

That is a real leap of fairth CT, many will be interested to know how you get on, please let us know.

peedee

Posted on 07/05/2021 18:47

That is a real leap of fairth CT, many will be interested to know how you get on, please let us know.

Not so much - I still have the PHEV V60 in case its needed, but intend to fully embrace the BEV + Caravan combo if its possible. I have a few long weekends planned and then will see how it works with charging and longer trips.  But will keep this thread updated!

 

labradors r the best replied on 08/05/2021 19:07

Posted on 07/05/2021 11:19 by ChocolateTrees

I have >this< on order (due in next 3 weeks) and will be towing my Bailey Unicorn 3 Vigo with it. Real world range is between 200-240 depending on conditions. Towing will be around half that (just as towing range with my current PHEV is half what it is when solo, and same with the previous ICE only). If I can tow for 100 is miles before a 35 min stop to charge, then that suits me just fine. Currently when towing I stop roughly every 2 hours for a break anyway - so really no change. 

 

Posted on 08/05/2021 19:07

You may need the 2hr  break when you come to recharge as I was having this discussion with the owner of a BMW ( can't remember the exact model),He was getting around 90mls towing before needing a recharge then came the problems,1 getting on to a charging point,  2 had to unhitch caravan and leave parked up because charging point could only accommodate vehicle, 3 if the services was a one way system he had to go to next junction turn round and collect caravan. And he was doing a 360 mile journey which was going to turn out to be a long day.frown

NutsyH replied on 10/05/2021 12:01

Posted on 10/05/2021 12:01

Are the club also going to install petrol and diesel pumps to save the majority of us from having to find a filling station? I think not, nor do I expect them to.  I'll stick with my 4.2 litre V8 turbo diesel. No problem going up hills (even very steep ones). It can even tow a 747.......

The whole concept of electric vehicles as a solution for emissions is nuts, when taking into account all the factors in constructing them.

VW carried out an in depth study, and concluded that you would need to run an EV for 80k miles before its OVERALL emissions fell below a standard ICE car. Fact. And how many people do that? 

Also, there is no doubt that the currently unspoken issue of tax on EV''s will arrive soon.

Greta and her acolytes (including HMG) are just not being honest. Bandwagon - jump on it.

I'll sit back now and wait for the howls of protest.

Oscarmax replied on 10/05/2021 12:03

Posted on 07/05/2021 08:59 by cyberyacht

"so we're constantly trying to put electricity into the battery ready for any hills we meet!"

That would suggest that the ICE in these hybrid vehicles are not fit for purpose when towing caravans. 

Posted on 10/05/2021 12:03

You really have not the slightest idea of how a hybrid work, especially a PHEV, I will try to explain but I have suffered a brain injury a few years ago, but I will do my best.

A  ICE vehicle is only 40% efficient, a hybrid like the latest Toyota RAV4 will harvested any energy wasted energy for every 3 miles ICE mode you will gain approximately 1 mile EV rain, this can and is used to power the hybrid.

A PHEV as per Hybrid has the ability to charge up using the main electricity and a considerable larger battery to call on, even in Charge/ Save mode the PHEV will harvest any wasted energy. A conventual ICE vehicle runs at varying throttle opening air speed between 80 - 110 m/s, the PHEV ICE unit runs at fixed at the most efficient air speed, any excess torque is used to charge up the batteries. 

A PHEV travelling downhill especially with a caravan in tow, the batteries are being charged up by the front and rear motors, in our case 60 kW and 70 kW, travelling back up hill the rear 70 kW kicks in and assist the ICE unit.

Oscarmax replied on 10/05/2021 12:07

Posted on 10/05/2021 12:01 by NutsyH

Are the club also going to install petrol and diesel pumps to save the majority of us from having to find a filling station? I think not, nor do I expect them to.  I'll stick with my 4.2 litre V8 turbo diesel. No problem going up hills (even very steep ones). It can even tow a 747.......

The whole concept of electric vehicles as a solution for emissions is nuts, when taking into account all the factors in constructing them.

VW carried out an in depth study, and concluded that you would need to run an EV for 80k miles before its OVERALL emissions fell below a standard ICE car. Fact. And how many people do that? 

Also, there is no doubt that the currently unspoken issue of tax on EV''s will arrive soon.

Greta and her acolytes (including HMG) are just not being honest. Bandwagon - jump on it.

I'll sit back now and wait for the howls of protest.

Posted on 10/05/2021 12:07

Now hears the rub, VW are two faced, I read somewhere the other day, they don't thing the current proposed emission targets are strict enough.

ChocolateTrees replied on 10/05/2021 13:00

Posted on 10/05/2021 12:01 by NutsyH

Are the club also going to install petrol and diesel pumps to save the majority of us from having to find a filling station? I think not, nor do I expect them to.  I'll stick with my 4.2 litre V8 turbo diesel. No problem going up hills (even very steep ones). It can even tow a 747.......

The whole concept of electric vehicles as a solution for emissions is nuts, when taking into account all the factors in constructing them.

VW carried out an in depth study, and concluded that you would need to run an EV for 80k miles before its OVERALL emissions fell below a standard ICE car. Fact. And how many people do that? 

Also, there is no doubt that the currently unspoken issue of tax on EV''s will arrive soon.

Greta and her acolytes (including HMG) are just not being honest. Bandwagon - jump on it.

I'll sit back now and wait for the howls of protest.

Posted on 10/05/2021 13:00

"Are the club also going to install petrol and diesel pumps to save the majority of us from having to find a filling station? I think not, nor do I expect them to."

Nor would I. But the club has already installed chargers in Brighton, and every location with a hookup is capable of charging an EV. That is one of the nice things about EVs - you can charge them pretty much anywhere there is civilisation. 

"I'll stick with my 4.2 litre V8 turbo diesel. No problem going up hills (even very steep ones). It can even tow a 747......."

Jolly good. My 408Hp, 600Nm EV can too. See you when you get to the top. 

"The whole concept of electric vehicles as a solution for emissions is nuts, when taking into account all the factors in constructing them.

VW carried out an in depth study, and concluded that you would need to run an EV for 80k miles before its OVERALL emissions fell below a standard ICE car. Fact. And how many people do that?"

Or if you compare a Polestar 2 and a Volvo XC40 (same chassis), the payback period is as little as 50K, (30,000 miles) or less than 3 years (read here). And that is just counting tailpipe CO2 emissions, not the emissions created from actually making diesel or petrol (about 30% more for petrol or 24% more for diesel) (read here). So payback is closer to 22,000 miles or less than 2 years. 

"Also, there is no doubt that the currently unspoken issue of tax on EV''s will arrive soon."

Sure the government is going to have to close the gap on revenues from drivers. The proposed plan? -  Road charging. I.e. a fee that all drivers will have to pay on top of the tax on their car or fuel. Outside of the purchase costs (which are in some cases comparable and others still high, but falling), if you think that the cost of using an EV will ever be more than that of using an ICE car, you are kidding yourself. 

My reason for "going green" and buying an EV? A mix, but the over-riding factor is economics. Over the next 4 years running a band new 400Hp Polestar 2 is going to cost me about the same ask keeping my 12 year old XC90 would have done. No brainer...

 

Oscarmax replied on 10/05/2021 13:20

Posted on 10/05/2021 13:03 by Tinwheeler

…..but you have to buy the new car so there is a cost.🤷🏻‍♂️

Posted on 10/05/2021 13:20

 But is 12 year old needed replacing anyway.

I have too admit Chocolate Trees, has made a very brave decision, but is willing to make some compromises to how they will caravan, if in the same position would I do the same, probably not quite just yet, but I think we are getting there.

I have gone down the halfway route and now tow with a PHEV, am I happy yes, would I go back to a conventual ICE, no change, I am saving an absolute fortune my fuel costs have dropped dramatically, in the past 11 months enough for 4 weeks away in the caravan.