Club EV charging costs

ChocolateTrees replied on 12/04/2021 16:35

Posted on 12/04/2021 16:35

Hi all, 

as a PHEV and EV driver, I am really please to see the introduction of a cost structure and policy for PHEV and EV charging on site, but I am somewhat confused by the cost structure. 

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/uk-holidays/uk-sites/club-sites/facilities-on-club-sites/electric-vehicle-charging/

While I understand the desire to ensure that full battery EVs do not "overuse" the service, the 4x cost seems somewhat odd given the constraint that any EV only be charged using the caravan supply at 2.3Kw (10amp). 

In my experience charging my PHEV, realistically a charger has to be turned down to 8A or 6A in order to share the power available with other caravan systems (heating, kettle, microwave, cooker). This means that for a relatively small PHEV battery (11Kwh) a full charge takes 8 hours. Given there are only 24 hours in the day this would give a maximum realistic charge of 33Kwh, about the same as the largest battery quoted in the policy in a PHEV vehicle. 

If charging from a dedicated 16A socket on a power bollard were allowed, this would potentially increase the rate and hence value of the electricity consumed, making the difference in price for BEV and PHEV understandable. It would also make the use of a BEV as a tow vehicle far more viable, not requiring the member to have to find a charging location for the vehicle in what may be a remote location. 

I would love to know other members thoughts on the topic :-)

 

Tobes 

 

Oscarmax replied on 05/05/2021 19:30

Posted on 05/05/2021 19:08 by brue

 I think the main problem with the CAMC EV/PHEV  offering is the loss of power to the van when the charge is being used so it isn't a satisfactory way of dealing with the situation. The supply is 16amp and whilst a charge is being taken the supply to the van is reduced. A pitch fee covers electrical usage in general but an extra fee is charged for a PHEV/EV charge even though the user is actually doing a balancing act with what is supplied. The user can't draw more than the supply and an adjoining pitch user without a PHEV/EV may well be using the domestic element with every conceivable appliance at the highest level too. 

I think this is the main gist of the conversation on here written by the OP and as an EV user I would be in agreement, but we won't be attempting to charge ours on a site, this is indeed a juggling act for which we would have to pay an extra fee!

 

Posted on 05/05/2021 19:30

You are right even with a PHEV  it is a balancing act, the majority of the time we only require a partial top up, I would imagine trying to charge a modern EV is a nightmare.

hitchglitch replied on 05/05/2021 20:21

Posted on 05/05/2021 20:21

There is a big difference between a Plug-in hybrid and a full EV. The PHEV doesn’t require top-up at all; you are simply trying to grab some free electricity instead of buying diesel. Plugging into the caravan socket outlet will just trickle charge at 10 amps or less overnight and grab you around 20 miles free towing. With a full EV there is no other option than charging the vehicle and you need a substantial power supply to do that in a reasonable time period - a minimum of 32 amps for several hours.

So, charging a PHEV by plugging into the caravan or motorhome socket outlet will use less than an awning heater, albeit for a longer period. It is reasonable for the Club to charge for this. A proper EV charger requires a dedicated supply which the Club say they will introduce at certain locations. This will probably be charged at commercial rates using a credit card - maybe 35 pence a unit which is 2-3 times your home cost and 7 times my cheap overnight changing rate.

ChocolateTrees replied on 05/05/2021 21:04

Posted on 05/05/2021 20:21 by hitchglitch

There is a big difference between a Plug-in hybrid and a full EV. The PHEV doesn’t require top-up at all; you are simply trying to grab some free electricity instead of buying diesel. Plugging into the caravan socket outlet will just trickle charge at 10 amps or less overnight and grab you around 20 miles free towing. With a full EV there is no other option than charging the vehicle and you need a substantial power supply to do that in a reasonable time period - a minimum of 32 amps for several hours.

So, charging a PHEV by plugging into the caravan or motorhome socket outlet will use less than an awning heater, albeit for a longer period. It is reasonable for the Club to charge for this. A proper EV charger requires a dedicated supply which the Club say they will introduce at certain locations. This will probably be charged at commercial rates using a credit card - maybe 35 pence a unit which is 2-3 times your home cost and 7 times my cheap overnight changing rate.

Posted on 05/05/2021 21:04

I disagree that charging a PHEV is looking for free miles. I actively charge my PHEV where I can and pay for the privilege within reason. That’s out of choice to run a greener car. When staying on a CL I always offer to pay an additional £2 per day to cover the charging. 

The point for me is 2 fold. 1) there is a balancing act which forces a lower charging rate that caps the maximum you can put in a car In 24 hours. For a PHEV this is acceptable as you could actually consume £2 of electricity, but for a BEV, £8 makes no sense without a dedicated charging facility.

2) having a strategic policy for electricity usage and charging that covers everything from awning heaters to electric BBQs to car charging is needed for the future.

peedee replied on 06/05/2021 11:23

Posted on 06/05/2021 11:23

So far my take is that charging EVs, the payment for it and the provision of dedicated charging capacity, needs to be part of wider reform by the club in overall electricity use.

I recall from the minutes of a Club meeting of 2/3 years ago, perhaps an AGM, the Club had a working party looking into this aspect but nothing has been communicated to the membership since.

I certainly agree reform is needed on how users are charge for electricty use, its been a bee in my bonnet ever since the Club stopped the choice of paying for it.

peedee

Wobblydeb replied on 06/05/2021 15:46

Posted on 05/05/2021 20:21 by hitchglitch

There is a big difference between a Plug-in hybrid and a full EV. The PHEV doesn’t require top-up at all; you are simply trying to grab some free electricity instead of buying diesel. Plugging into the caravan socket outlet will just trickle charge at 10 amps or less overnight and grab you around 20 miles free towing. With a full EV there is no other option than charging the vehicle and you need a substantial power supply to do that in a reasonable time period - a minimum of 32 amps for several hours.

So, charging a PHEV by plugging into the caravan or motorhome socket outlet will use less than an awning heater, albeit for a longer period. It is reasonable for the Club to charge for this. A proper EV charger requires a dedicated supply which the Club say they will introduce at certain locations. This will probably be charged at commercial rates using a credit card - maybe 35 pence a unit which is 2-3 times your home cost and 7 times my cheap overnight changing rate.

Posted on 06/05/2021 15:46

I would also disagree that the PHEV owners are looking for free miles.  We've got an Outlander PHEV and normally I wouldn't bother charging up when away from home.  BUT.... we will happily pay to charge when we're towing.  The car needs the help from the electric motors to make decent headway when towing the van.  It makes such a difference, that I'm happy to pay (or go out of my way) to recharge the car if we'll be towing the following day.

As an indication, we put our car into "charge" mode when we are towing, so we're constantly trying to put electricity into the battery ready for any hills we meet!

So far, charging at sites has been relatively trouble free.  We ask permission / pay if required and plug in via the van.  Normally that's just overnight once we head to bed.  With a 12kWh battery, it suits that pattern.  I'd love to go pure electric, but I think dedicated high speed charging points will be needed to make it work.

cyberyacht replied on 07/05/2021 08:59

Posted on 07/05/2021 08:59

"so we're constantly trying to put electricity into the battery ready for any hills we meet!"

That would suggest that the ICE in these hybrid vehicles are not fit for purpose when towing caravans. 

ChocolateTrees replied on 07/05/2021 09:54

Posted on 07/05/2021 08:59 by cyberyacht

"so we're constantly trying to put electricity into the battery ready for any hills we meet!"

That would suggest that the ICE in these hybrid vehicles are not fit for purpose when towing caravans. 

Posted on 07/05/2021 09:54

That would suggest that the ICE in these hybrid vehicles are not fit for purpose when towing caravans.

I think it speaks more to the specifics of that vehicle. There are many PHEV vehicles and a number of different ways of combining the ICE and EV components. The outlander uses a series / parallel mix which is great at high speed towing, but not quite so good at low speed towing, but can return very good efficiency over all, and has huge flexibility in 2wd vs 4wd modes

The Volvo system in the V60/V90/XC60/XC90 is a parallel only mode, that has the ICE drive the front wheels and Electric motor drive the rear.  Here high and low speed towing is fine, but you are a little more compromised on the AWD capability (though I have never noticed an issue) and can tow perfectly well with the traction battery completely empty. 

JVB66 replied on 07/05/2021 10:48

Posted on 07/05/2021 10:48

When there are Hybrids and EVs put forward for towing competions and then MPC is measured with a van on the hook ,,will we be more likely to be inclined to go down that route

The  way it seems High? mileages are being promoted by car companies is at 30kph and lightly loaded

ChocolateTrees replied on 07/05/2021 11:19

Posted on 07/05/2021 11:19

I have >this< on order (due in next 3 weeks) and will be towing my Bailey Unicorn 3 Vigo with it. Real world range is between 200-240 depending on conditions. Towing will be around half that (just as towing range with my current PHEV is half what it is when solo, and same with the previous ICE only). If I can tow for 100 is miles before a 35 min stop to charge, then that suits me just fine. Currently when towing I stop roughly every 2 hours for a break anyway - so really no change.