Club EV charging costs

ChocolateTrees replied on 12/04/2021 16:35

Posted on 12/04/2021 16:35

Hi all, 

as a PHEV and EV driver, I am really please to see the introduction of a cost structure and policy for PHEV and EV charging on site, but I am somewhat confused by the cost structure. 

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/uk-holidays/uk-sites/club-sites/facilities-on-club-sites/electric-vehicle-charging/

While I understand the desire to ensure that full battery EVs do not "overuse" the service, the 4x cost seems somewhat odd given the constraint that any EV only be charged using the caravan supply at 2.3Kw (10amp). 

In my experience charging my PHEV, realistically a charger has to be turned down to 8A or 6A in order to share the power available with other caravan systems (heating, kettle, microwave, cooker). This means that for a relatively small PHEV battery (11Kwh) a full charge takes 8 hours. Given there are only 24 hours in the day this would give a maximum realistic charge of 33Kwh, about the same as the largest battery quoted in the policy in a PHEV vehicle. 

If charging from a dedicated 16A socket on a power bollard were allowed, this would potentially increase the rate and hence value of the electricity consumed, making the difference in price for BEV and PHEV understandable. It would also make the use of a BEV as a tow vehicle far more viable, not requiring the member to have to find a charging location for the vehicle in what may be a remote location. 

I would love to know other members thoughts on the topic :-)

 

Tobes 

 

JVB66 replied on 12/04/2021 17:18

Posted on 12/04/2021 17:18

I would think the charge via your caravan socket would be expected to be used overnight with both type of vehicle,   the "interesting part that i have noted ,is how will the add charge be implemented/and or policed as it is down to the honest members to advse the site office staff  when they will be charging their vehicle.

I can remember n EHU was an add charge and wardens we know (when they were working at the time most retired now) were always noting members connected to the bollard although they "did not need the electric hook up" when booking in 

Even now some will run another lead to a "spare?" hookup if needing extra power,site staff will advise

ps i shall wait for comments from other posters who will try to belittle what i have saidundecided

ChocolateTrees replied on 12/04/2021 21:15

Posted on 12/04/2021 21:15

I agree the expectation is that all EVs will be charged via the caravan and not direct from the bollard. And that’s the basis of my concern. When charging through the van you can only add so much energy in a given time. I.e. the amount of electricity used is constrained not by the EV but by time and the connection (via the van). I have no problem paying for the electricity, but the different price for PHEV and BEV makes no sense given the constraint for charging. 
What I would really like to see is an implementation that measures how much electricity is used and charges on that basis. Given that EVs are inevitable, the club really needs to get to grips with the offer sooner rather than later.

Tinwheeler replied on 12/04/2021 21:42

Posted on 12/04/2021 21:15 by ChocolateTrees

I agree the expectation is that all EVs will be charged via the caravan and not direct from the bollard. And that’s the basis of my concern. When charging through the van you can only add so much energy in a given time. I.e. the amount of electricity used is constrained not by the EV but by time and the connection (via the van). I have no problem paying for the electricity, but the different price for PHEV and BEV makes no sense given the constraint for charging. 
What I would really like to see is an implementation that measures how much electricity is used and charges on that basis. Given that EVs are inevitable, the club really needs to get to grips with the offer sooner rather than later.

Posted on 12/04/2021 21:42

There are a few points to consider here.

EVs are to be charged via caravans to gain the safety benefit of the trip devices installed in vans.

The electricity supply to bollards is inadequate for everyone to potentially use 16A in their vans and another 16A charging their cars. Indeed, site supplies are already stretched and frequently overloaded during times of high demand and we are asked to minimise usage - and that's without many people charging EVs. 

Supply to the site cannot be increased on a whim and is probably already 3 phase on bigger sites.

Metering/monitoring of electricity usage is a very complex issue with legal connotations and an installation cost which would be reflected somewhere in the fees charged.

This whole issue is one that is being looked at by the club with a few options in mind.

However, I am just another club member and have no inside knowledge and you are unlikely to uncover technical facts and details of future plans on this forum. I would suggest you put your thoughts directly to the club who might welcome them.

Oscarmax replied on 13/04/2021 08:43

Posted on 13/04/2021 08:43

 We tow with a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV on site we charge up via the caravan external socket, the PHEV draws 10 amp for approximately 4 1/2 hours the last hours is slowly drops to zero. 

If we need to boil a kettle we have to switch the PHEV charger off. We can still some smaller item like the Alde heating on 1 kW or our Reomska 600 watt cooker, not both. With the PHEV charging and the heating on according to the Swift onboard screen we are under the 16 amps.

We set are PHEV charger to charge after midnight when electric consumption in low on site. 

The average PHEV like our requires approximately 10 kWh for a full charge (20 pence a kW, which = £2.00) In theory with some care an EV can easily consume over 40 kWh over a 24 period ( 20 pence a kW =£8.00)

We don't expect the caravan club or other member to subsidise the charging up our PHEV. As regards full EV it is more cost effective and convenient to use the fast charging points some like Tesco are free

JVB66 replied on 13/04/2021 09:35

Posted on 13/04/2021 08:43 by Oscarmax

 We tow with a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV on site we charge up via the caravan external socket, the PHEV draws 10 amp for approximately 4 1/2 hours the last hours is slowly drops to zero. 

If we need to boil a kettle we have to switch the PHEV charger off. We can still some smaller item like the Alde heating on 1 kW or our Reomska 600 watt cooker, not both. With the PHEV charging and the heating on according to the Swift onboard screen we are under the 16 amps.

We set are PHEV charger to charge after midnight when electric consumption in low on site. 

The average PHEV like our requires approximately 10 kWh for a full charge (20 pence a kW, which = £2.00) In theory with some care an EV can easily consume over 40 kWh over a 24 period ( 20 pence a kW =£8.00)

We don't expect the caravan club or other member to subsidise the charging up our PHEV. As regards full EV it is more cost effective and convenient to use the fast charging points some like Tesco are free

Posted on 13/04/2021 09:35

Tesco charging points do not belong to Tesco they only let the company giving the service the space( the actual charge points belong to an offshoot of Volkwagon

Oscarmax replied on 13/04/2021 09:53

Posted on 13/04/2021 09:35 by JVB66

Tesco charging points do not belong to Tesco they only let the company giving the service the space( the actual charge points belong to an offshoot of Volkwagon

Posted on 13/04/2021 09:53

Totally agree, I cannot see them being free forever, there has to be a cut of point.

ChocolateTrees replied on 13/04/2021 15:21

Posted on 13/04/2021 08:43 by Oscarmax

 We tow with a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV on site we charge up via the caravan external socket, the PHEV draws 10 amp for approximately 4 1/2 hours the last hours is slowly drops to zero. 

If we need to boil a kettle we have to switch the PHEV charger off. We can still some smaller item like the Alde heating on 1 kW or our Reomska 600 watt cooker, not both. With the PHEV charging and the heating on according to the Swift onboard screen we are under the 16 amps.

We set are PHEV charger to charge after midnight when electric consumption in low on site. 

The average PHEV like our requires approximately 10 kWh for a full charge (20 pence a kW, which = £2.00) In theory with some care an EV can easily consume over 40 kWh over a 24 period ( 20 pence a kW =£8.00)

We don't expect the caravan club or other member to subsidise the charging up our PHEV. As regards full EV it is more cost effective and convenient to use the fast charging points some like Tesco are free

Posted on 13/04/2021 15:21

I certainly dont expect the club to subsidise charging - that is on me, but it would be good to have a solution where the large battery BEV user is not over paying for the same amount of electricity used by a small battery BEV or PHEV user, when it is almost impossible to use that amount of power. 

A different solution might be, charge via the van - pay £2 per day flat rate (no discrimination for EV type).

Or - if there is one available - charge from a spare bollard using a 16A to 3 pin connector or using a native 16A charger unit - charge £8 or £10 a day. Possibly an option of £5 or £8 over night if parked on a late-arrivals pitch between certain hours. 

Don't miss-understand me - I really like that the CMCC have a policy and are thinking about this, but I think the policy needs to evolve as the requirements evolve. Charging a Polestar 2 (the BEV I will be towing with) from 0 - 100% at 6A will take 57 hours 10% - 80 would take 40 hours with a cost of £10 at 20p per kwh . 

 

JVB66 replied on 13/04/2021 16:58

Posted on 13/04/2021 16:58

The club are already installing EV hook up bollards on sites that are being refurbished (covid has delayed much of that) if the power supply is enough

gs, In colder periods now, members on many sites are being asked to restrict the use of the power that is used to conserve power when some "need?" not only the LV heating on High but then also heat the Sky by having ,as you may have seen,  radiant heaters in their empty awnings ,

I would think what the club have introduced is a "test the water" before huge investment on metered eletric which of course would need somehow to be recovered

Normade replied on 04/05/2021 19:50

Posted on 04/05/2021 19:50

 The Club seem more interested in introducing glamping pods and teh like than catering for EV & PHEV owners at the moment.

They should realise that most tow car owners will be considering a PHEV the next time they change their car and will want to recharge it when they arrive at the caravan site after each journey. The policy introduced seems to be a bit "hit and miss" and I'm not convinced that the electricity supply will cope.

Some serious investment needed I think as soon as possible. 

JVB66 replied on 04/05/2021 21:47

Posted on 04/05/2021 19:50 by Normade

 The Club seem more interested in introducing glamping pods and teh like than catering for EV & PHEV owners at the moment.

They should realise that most tow car owners will be considering a PHEV the next time they change their car and will want to recharge it when they arrive at the caravan site after each journey. The policy introduced seems to be a bit "hit and miss" and I'm not convinced that the electricity supply will cope.

Some serious investment needed I think as soon as possible. 

Posted on 04/05/2021 21:47

I would think as with many places in the UK the problem with power supplies ,or lack of , is going to be the big problem ,for many years to come, not just camp sites  

Maybe until then  any vehicle charging will need to be overnight when power usage is lower